Rip off acts on You Tube and around the world

[Ben Robinson]

Hi, Ben Robinson from New York writing. I generally shy away from organized magic because I pride myself on creating my own effects and novel presentations and amateurs thing nothing of just copying ebcause after all "whose it gonna hurt?" I remember back in 1976 when I was standing in the back of a comedy club and another comedian was writing down material he heard on stage and I saw another guy rip the paper out of his hands and tear it up. Now we can see all sorts of rip off acts like the guy who does Lance Burton lock stock and barrel on You Tube. So, age old question mates, how can we stop creativity from being ripped off, or can we?

[Jim Coston]

Advances in technology make me doubtful that it can be controlled anymore.

There was a time when a Vaudeville Act could make a living doing the same "15 minutes" in theaters across the USA. People didn't travel as much and mass media was dots & dashes.

Then came the advent of TV, and once they did their act on the tube, it was seen my millions...and gone forever. Television chewed up and spat out hundreds of acts.

I remember as a kid, every Sunday night, I'd sit in front of the family set with a tape recorder taping The Smothers Brothers routines and then practice them all week.

Of course, I didn't go out and try and make a living doing "Mom liked you best"

In the 1980's, I went to see the Rock & Roll act "The Coasters" in Charleston SC - funny thing was nobody on stage was remotely old enough to be an original member.

There are knock off acts (at least a half dozen Drifters out there touring today) and "Tribute Acts" making money off the backs of almost every rock & roller out there.

I guess all we can do is try and be as original as we can in our own performances, discourage copycats ( a lot of young entertainers don't even know it's wrong) and pray that, in the end the world would rather have "the original" rather than a "poor man's version" of it.

But I won't hold my breath...

[Ben Robinson]

Thanks for replying Jim. I'd sure like to h ear from others about this as we sure have a lot of talent here now. I have often asked the same question sort of couched in commerce as "How does an artist bring his wares to market first without being ripped off?" A producer in Dallas offered, "Raise your own money." It was one of the most salient remarks I have since heard. The head of the Rodgers and Hammerstein Organization recently told me, that copyright was only as good as your bankroll to pay your lawyer. George Lucas has said that he spends over 100 Million dollars a year protecting his copyrights, movies, games and technologies from being pirated. I am concerned because I am such the little fish, but I developed a trick which gets me work every time because it creates a give-away instantly with my business card and over 50% of the time I get a repeat booking because of this one trick. Hence, I keep that close, but I also -- believe it or not -- really had my first stalker. Yes, a man who showed up at my home without an invitation seeking the solution to this trick. He had seen it twice and then hunted me down feeling that if he made the effort, I'd just give it to him! Weird world. Oh, and for those that wonder, no, I did not give it to him, but rather politely asked him not to do that again. As money becomes tighter all over, stuff that works, I fear, will become even more coveted. And no, I don't think I am being over concerned. Wait till it happens to you that you turn on the tube and see your material being done by another. And, Jon Bauman, the greaser act "Bowser" from Sha Na Na got a law passed in NY State called the Bowser Bill about pirated copy acts needing at least one original member of the original act included in any promoted act to be able to call themselves a namer act. You might look into this via Google if you are interested. Bowman currently does a big show for about 30,000 people at a clip (which I have seen) called "Bowser's Ultimate Doo Wop Party" and he features all originals, some dudes who are actually over 75 and still doing it, God Bless'em!

[Johnny Stone]

This is a great Topic. Pro or con,its somewhat inevitable that entertainers"copy" one another to a degree,whether intentional or not. For example in our gig (dueling Pianos) we pretty much HAVE to perform the same material. That being said,from one club to the next,let alone from one performer to the next...you seldom see the same song performed "note for note" just like the "last" guy did.
But the BLATANT ripoffs,,,word for word,,,expressions..props..etc..should be punishable by some degree of humiliation and extreme pain imo :)....anyone seen my "Cane"..>) ?

[Ric Steel]

I heard it said once that originality is nothing more than an obscure resource......I think that to some degree that is true.....BUT ....There is nothing more wonderful than being who YOU are and not trying to be someone else.

We all have a security level and want to succeed but if you look at the real winners in the industry they have always been those who stepped out on their own and were original.

Finally, I understand why every beginning magician learns the trick with the three ropes of different lengths but is is the guy who attempts to do that with CHAINS or better yet 1 INCH THICK STEEL CABLE that will stand head and shoulders above the rest.

Being who YOU are and doing it YOUR way = YOUR success !

[David Lucas]

There really is no way unless you can copy write or patent it. Even then how do we go back in time to find out who did what. My Dad has been in the business since the 1950's even he said so many things that we see now are take off's of some acts or bits that were around in his day. My Dad worked with Johnny Thomson when he was with the Harmonicats. Johnny even used to talk about this. I guess back in their day if an act was to similar to another they couldn't get booked. Now agents and buyers don't care, they ask are you like so and so, if yes great, how much. At one time or another I guess we have all lost work to cheaper acts that do other people's material but at the end of the day if you are good at what you do you will find work, it just takes a little more digging.

[Ben Robinson]

Hi, Ben replying. Yes. I agree with you. I've been in the business (getting paid that is) since 1974. I've seen my share of whose moves and lines get pilfered and even once a super famous guy getting punched out in the back of a comedy club for pinching another's material. Lucas and his billions are one form of copyright world and protection...but...us little guys who make their bread by doing what they do best...it just sux though when one magician blatantly steals another's work. It makes me mad when one magician (in my case) cops someone else's material. I work hard to create my own lines, jokes, moves and routines, and for someone to just come along and snatch it is like stealing a baby or a canvas, at least to me. Thanks for weighing in, I appreciate it.

[Doug Anderson]

It's a shame when others rip you off. You try to create a new effect or make an existing effect you purchased your own, based on your style, creativity, etc. & then someone takes what you do, not just shaving off a line or two, or copying a premise but the entire routine, word for word for gesture. Unfortunately we have all worked with several people that do "the best of"... someone else. Play everything close to the vest & realize that once you are on video, pretty much anyone can (and will) take it. Sometimes gentle chiding will stop all but the most egregious thief. Ostracizing will work sometimes, other times not.

My particular pet peeve while working ships used to be staff members saying of a new act's joke "Oh, that's going into bingo when they leave!" Then when another staff member goes to another ship, the act in question has had some of their material told at bingo before they get a chance to perform. Outrageous.

Ben, my viewpoint is this: If someone steals from you (hence does YOUR stuff) and gets the gig instead of you... they have literally stolen money out of your pocket. Videotape what you do with a time/date stamp if you can. That might not stop thieves but at least you'll be vindicated with proof. Something Franz Harary did/does is get a patent on his effects and illusions he creates. Fielding West wrote his hilarious metamorphosis routine into a 3-act play, making it the middle act. He got a copyright on the play, thus nobody can legally perform his routine without his permission.

Hope this helps,
Doug

[Ben Robinson]

Hey Doug, I DO appreciate the tip re Franz and Fielding. Houdini copyrighted his torture cell as a "play" and had it performed for only one person, as that was British law at the time. Today in the 21st century, there seems to be a "no rules" attitude, and having had nearly 35 years in this profession, I am astonished when "kids" in their twenties call me up and say "Hey, loved that thing you did, can I do it too?" I mean, they just don't even realize it is my sweat and mind at work. Alas. BTW, I believe you had a deck color change out years back, and it inspired me to create my own, which is nothing like yours. I'd love to show it to you one day. Cheers!

[Doug Anderson]

Don't remember creating or even doing a color-change deck, but hey, I might have! Thanks for the kudos regardless.
I was sitting with an act who told me a joke & gave me a strange look. I didn't respond & then heard him do it in his show. It got a good laugh. Several months later I was in Barbados & a friend showed me a videotape of my act from 16 years earlier... I told the same joke this act was now doing and had completely forgotten it!
Interestingly enough, after replying to you yesterday I was talking with our sound/lights guy on the ship. He's been working on some unique comedy based on a character he's creating & we ended up having the same discussion about thieves. His reply was "if ripped off I'll just write new stuff." to which I replied "You mean you're gonna end up writing stuff, and NEW stuff for others to just take without YOU getting paid?" I think he changed his mind.
Two final things: Get it out there, be the first to do it, try to keep other acts from watching you perform. That's about the most effective thing you can do. Secondly, some of us make honest mistakes (or knowingly 'take' a line from someone we know) & when I do this, I IMMEDIATELY call the act & confess. I don't want to become known as a thief & friends not only appreciate it, but they reciprocate, too. Being known as a "good guy" will make it more likely that others will stick up for you when they hear someone doing your routine. I know I appreciate their help and high ethics. Cheers, Doug

[Ben Robinson]

Hi Doug,

Many thanks for the reply. I agree about getting it out there. Paul says below that he put "just enough" video of him to get booked. Me too. I only put demos on YT because why give away what I am selling? The diff. is that pros make money, their living by what we do on stage. Amateurs copy and think nothing's wrong. But, as I have written oh, a few thousand times, when the guy at the salad bar duplicates your trick, you are out of the water. Once I did a trade show. A big deal thing at CBS for invited vendors only and Ted Turner walked in a saw me. I went into my color changing deck which has a red backed deck change to blank on both sides cleanly shown and then to a blue backed deck and this all happens in about 27 seconds without words if need be. So I do this and Turner leans in, and I know I have him hooked. I'm just about to say hello to him and ask how Jane is and get a laugh, and all that when some idiot pipes up, "Oh I bought that trick deck for my seven year old last month." Ted stopped leaning toward me and walked away. Point is, he digs creativity and originality -- which my deck is... MINE! -- and when he thought I was just some schmuck with a store-bought trick, he was no longer interested. It makes you cringe as a performer to sweat it out coming up with stuff that WORKS, and then have some bonehead say, "oh, that's good, I'll just do that." Yes, I am not a member of any magic fraternity for this reason. I don't read magic magazines and have one club in New York I have worked at for 8 years and I am their guy, yet I can't tell you how many magicians have approached management and offered to work for less than I! I know there is nothing we can do, except keep our work close to the vest, but if the world ethically changed, I think this would help our commerce...well... I can dream can't I? Thanks for listening.

[Paul Romhany]

Great topic Ben. I've spent the last twenty years working on my original Chaplin Act. It's kept my wife and I very busy not only on ships but on land tours and corporate gigs around the world. I have NOT performed it on TV at all, because I prefer to perform it live, just like the old vaudeville days. I DO NOT perform it at magic conventions (one exception was many years ago when I won the Peoples Choice Award at the PCAM).
I was invited to compete at the IBM/SAM convention this year and turned it down for the very reason that magicians WILL RIP IT OFF or at least try to. Magicians are one of the worst for stealing acts and I find it embarrasing at times to call myself a magician. Too many idiots out there who have no clue about showbusiness.
I wish every act took a course in the history of showbusiness and see how the v Vaudeville days worked.

There was one comic on a cruise line I worked for that would rip off every act - to the point where other acts would not perform if he was in the room! He has been fired from more cruise lines than there are cruise lines!! Truth is he can no longer work comedy clubs because his act is all made up from other peoples!

True story: A few years back I was invited to a magic meeting in Vancouver. I went and ended up spending my time talking to a street magician for over 2 hours on my theories of performing an entire act as a silent character. I told him how strong it could be, how theatrical it could be etc. and really spent time with him. I then went out on a ship for a few months and while away a friend of mine sent me a photo of this guy dressed as Charlie Chaplin doing a street show!! If I'd been back in Vancouver I would have walked right up to him and ripped his moustache off and hit him with the cane!! After I calmed down I realised that it doesn't really matter because everything I said to this guy was a waste of time and he didn't understand what I was talking about. In his mind he probably thought I was giving him permission to do my act, when actually I was trying to have serious discussion on silent comedy. His stint at Chaplin only lasted a week or so because he found out it wasn't working for him.
From that point on I never worried about people trying to rip my act off - firstly I have been studying Chaplin since I was 8 years old - I'm now 40! When I perform my act I actually BECOME chaplin, something you can't get just from watching one movie. Pretty much all of the magic and routines are original and have been honed with over 20 years experience, there are moves that people don't pick up on but make the entire routine work. Some of the illusions, such as my floating broom, are too advance for magicians to copy - it cost me thousands of dollars to create.

I am protective about my act but it doesn't stop me working. I've basically created a 20 minute act (45 for ships) and that's how I make my living. I have even put up some footage on youtube - not too much but enough to get me booked around the world.

I would say on average I get 3- 4 emails from magicians asking about my act and wanting to see videos etc., some even asking where they can get a cane like mine. I politely tell them mine is an original Chaplin Cane and if they can afford thousands of dollars then they might be lucky to get one if it ever comes up at an auction. That usually puts them off. I have seen one or two of these magicians even put up there act on youtube as Chaplin and they are embarrassing. Sadly these people will never be successful because they have not created something original, but are simply taking the easy way out by stealing another persons act, or at least trying to. Showbusiness (at least in the international scene) is a very small world and if you rip another persons act off then you won't last long in the business.

It is a much better investment to study your craft and work on something that others might want to steal. I guess if people feel the need to steal an act then you must have a damn good act:))

Phew - glad I got all that off my chest. I think I will write something in my BLOG this week. At least with my BLOG I have over 17 thousand readers so it's probably a good way to get this message to younger readers.

[Ben Robinson]

Yes Paul I agree. I also like your point about only putting "enough stuff on YT to get booked." I do that too, only demos. I did not get into magic or the performing arts to be rich or famous. No, I got into it for "the work." That means, the creative problem solving notion of theatre. Period. And, one note, as I have already answered you privately. Jack Flosso once went into a famous costumer in NY with his father, the great Al Flosso. There, they met a man with Claire Bloom, the actress, who the man in a Homburg said he was casting in his new picture. After a while, the man and Jack were left alone while Al talked to Claire and finally Jack said, "what do you do?" And the man replied, "Oh, I used to play tramp." Jack was talking to Chaplin himself. I always thought how humble Chaplin's reply was. Point is, Chaplin knew the tramp act was generic when he entered the game. He just did it better than anyone ever, before or...since. Tells you something about the man and how he viewed his place in the theatre.